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Post by beastman on Dec 11, 2007 9:36:18 GMT -5
Search Checks! This is a must fix mechanic. When dealing with traps. or anything for that matter, it slows down game play more then combat is alleged to. Well I circumvent the problem by placing traps/secret doors in/on appropriate areas/objects and not in some random corridor who leads to the toilet. So, my players are encouraned to think of where such devices are placed and thus tend only to search areas which a likely to be protected...Not a perfect solution, but a start. What i especially hate about search is the elves ability to pass and area and automatically have a chance to detect these things....it not only slows down the game, but my players are smart enough to know what i roll for most of the time and then make a big search of the area if the elf's ability failed to detect the secret door.... That's true. Much too often this is reduced only to a "make a search check". You solution works absolutly fine. What would you suggest for elves? |
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Post by beastman on Dec 11, 2007 9:36:41 GMT -5
Mmmm...I currently play elves as per the RAW and never thought about a houserule. By the way, same thing is with a dwarf's stonecunning...
So out of my head would say...
1) Let them actually search just like any other character does and simply increase his racial bonus to +4 (?) when searching for a secret or concealed door. Or...
2) Another possibility is to assume that the elves "takes 10" when running around and thus uses makes constant use of his "search score" (10 + search total), so DMs do not need to roll every time the elf passes a secret door (and thus player's suspect there is one) but can tell him right away if there is a secret door (i.e. if the door's seach DC is equal to or lower than the elf's search score). Further thinking about it, this could also be done with the dwarf's stonecunning ability and I would also make the dwarf's and elf's auto-detect's range both the same distance (5 or 10 feet) to avoid keeping to many different distances in mind.
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Post by brasten on Dec 11, 2007 14:43:23 GMT -5
I like the auto-take 10 for creatures like elves and dwarves, unless the player wants to roll for each area, not 5 ft. square, they enter. Also making the detection ranges a standard 10 ft. would better fit way 'standard' D&D corridors are designed.
If you make it an active search instead of reactive one then a time reduction could also work as an incentive. An elf character who declares he is searching for secrete doors does so at a rate of 1 square every round(6 seconds).
Taking 10 is actually always an option while searching, unless the characters are being attacked or decently distracted. The big problem is when players want to roll for the search checks. Then they have to roll for every single 5 ft. square, and that slows down game play. This happens when the players *think* there may be a trap or passage that is above their search check +10 and they don't want to slow the in-game party down while they take 20.
A quick fix would be to add an extra option to Search that allows a character to make a general area search with a single roll. It takes the same amount of time as searching an area that size normally would but is handled with just one roll. I know this is already house rule that people use but it would be good time saving addtion if nothing else gets done with Search for 3.75.
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Post by beastman on Dec 11, 2007 16:07:41 GMT -5
If you make it an active search instead of reactive one then a time reduction could also work as an incentive. An elf character who declares he is searching for secrete doors does so at a rate of 1 square every round (6 seconds).. Mmmm. Actually the SRD for search states : "It takes a full-round action to search a 5-foot-by-5-foot area or a volume of goods 5 feet on a side. " - which i assume is an active search. Furthermore, I always intepreted the elf's ability (to "merely pass within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door") as a subconscious thing which takes no time. I handled this in my games as follows: elf enters room and passes by a secret door. I roll for him if he detect the secret door (tyring to hide the roll from my players but they usually know what i do). If so, I tell the player: as you pass this section of the wall, you spot a small crack in the wall. Right here at your right is a secret door (which does not mean that he will be able to open it) Taking 10 is actually always an option while searching, unless the characters are being attacked or decently distracted. The big problem is when players want to roll for the search checks. I very rarely let my players roll search checks...so Then they have to roll for every single 5 ft. square, and that slows down game play. This happens when the players *think* there may be a trap or passage that is above their search check +10 and they don't want to slow the in-game party down while they take 20. A quick fix would be to add an extra option to Search that allows a character to make a general area search with a single roll. It takes the same amount of time as searching an area that size normally would but is handled with just one roll. I know this is already house rule that people use but it would be good time saving addtion if nothing else gets done with Search for 3.75. My players usually take 20 for a search after "clearing" a section of monsters, so a need to roll for every 5 foot square isn't necessary. So the take-10-fix would be used for the elf not actively searching, such as "just" passing through a corridor. I personally never had the problem with my players always searching every inch of a dungeon, but had a "problem" with constantly rolling for the elf's auto-detect (even in rooms without secret doors to confuse the players). |
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Post by stereofm on Jan 15, 2008 15:38:25 GMT -5
I have a right opposite take : I do not want my players finding my traps. I want them to fall into them.
the thing is, if i remember correctly, you need to be in a relative quiet to even be able to take 10, much less 20.
A trap is (should d**n be !) dangerous, therefore it is always stressful. So you can't ever take 10 or 20 to find or disable it.
If the players insist on searching everyhting, let them roll endlessly. After a while, they will tire of it. And THEN, you can spring the trap. MWAHAHAHAHA !
This sounds cruel, but I found out by experience, that it tends to make for a better gameplay overall. Also, I use few traps to begin with, but the ones I do are always memorable.
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Post by brasten on Jan 26, 2008 14:01:42 GMT -5
The difference between taking 10 and taking 20 is rather big. Taking 10 only accounts for a single check. Distractions or threats prevent taking 10, with combat being the example of both a fairly significant distraction and a threat. Searching for a passive trap, like a pit, wouldn't really have any distractions or pose a threat until it was found. An active trap such as the Star Wars garbage compactor would prevent a character from taking 10 while looking for the bypass switch.
Taking 20 is really out of the question when it comes to traps since if you don't find the trap the first time you're likely going to trigger it.
The problem I have with searching for traps specifically is there isn't a reactive, or even passive element to characters finding them. In just some cases Spot would actually be the better skill for locating an actual trap. Search would be important for finding the trigger mechanism or bypass switch.
This also brings up the issue of number of search checks that need to be made. If searching for traps and searching for secret doors are two different rolls then you have even more rolls slowing up the game. What if the trap and door are on the same surface, does this requirer one or two checks?
Reducing everything to a single search or spot check doesn't defeat a trap. The characters still have to either disable it or bypass. If we assume that an appropriate trap for a party's level is about a 50/50 chance for a maxed level rogue to disable then that may still leaves a trap to be dealt with.
Traps also need to be addressed since they focus all the attention on the party's trap finder and leave the other player's doing nothing, which is bad.
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